Were the Beastie Boys similar to LL Cool J, or did they have a sense of rap as pop songs, with choruses and everything?
Not really. The majority of the music I did, and then we wrote a lot of the lyrics together. Often Adam and I would go out at night, to Danceteria, and just exchange ideas. I can remember we wrote the song “Girls” on the train to Washington, D.C. We started with the idea of what the song would be. It was rooted in the Isley Brothers’ “Shout.” What would a rap version of “Shout” sound like? And if you listen to it now, you’ll see it’s really similar.
How did you discover Public Enemy, another one of the greatest rap groups ever?
D.M.C. from Run-D.M.C. played me a tape of Chuck D hosting a radio show. The show was called “Public Enemy Number One.” And the first minute of the song “Public Enemy” was his theme song. We listened to it over and over again. He sounded different. He had that deep voice, and there was a more intellectual side to him. He didn’t sound like a kid. He sounded more mature. And angry. So I called him, and he said that he had already done the rap thing. Now he had a regular job. He wasn’t interested. He felt like he was too old. He was probably 20. LL was 16. Chuck thought he’d missed his chance.
Where was he working?
He worked at a record store. I called him every day for six months, probably. He would leave a message with whoever was there, like, “Tell Rick I’m not here.” And then eventually I got a message: Chuck wants to meet. And he comes in, and he’s like, “I’m willing to do it under these terms: it’s called Public Enemy. It’s a group. It’s more like the Clash than a rap group, and it’s me and Flavor Flav, and Griff and Hank are involved.” And I said, “Whatever you want to do is fine.”